Pat's Page

Write to Pat patinmex@att.net.mx

Meet Patricia Venner from Mexico. Pat is an active friend and visitor to this website. She has done much for the cause and is not afraid to speak out her mind. The collection below is comprised of various mails as well as articles she has submitted to "Anglosinjharkhand"

your contributions and interactions with Pat will help this page to grow

 

__ WHO OR WHAT IS AN ANGLO-INDIAN??

 

 dear all,

 sometimes i receive the most enlightening or most hilariously insane and uninformed mail, ... the way i see things: if anyone is uncomfortable saying they are anglo  indian, then the anglo indian community doesnt need them, good  riddance!

if they did a bit of research they would probably find their anglo indian  ancestors are far more illustrious than the anglo ones...the empire  wasnt built by lords and ladies, it was built by men who couldnt make  good in their own country, or for some dark reason had to shipped out  PDQ by their families, or were second,third fourth sons and went off  to make their "fortunes". not saying all were of dubious background,  just some.

 

 i have come across my fair share of AIs claiming to be  maltese,spanish,portugese,caribbean etc etc. the one foolproof method  of catching them out is to say "how wonderful, what is the food like  from

your country?". then, sit back and listen to the most ghastly recipies  being concocted on the spur of the moment. of course they will slip up  and the anglo indian touch will show. there are many who think the  anglo indian race will die out. i believe those to be the ones who live in countries  other than india, and have married, or their children have married  people of other  ethnic origins. the anglo indians IN india are alive and kicking,  thank you!

 no sign of disappearing like the dinosaurs....

 

 now about this "sell by date" or "shelf life" some people want to put  on anglo indians. i dont quite get it. if my parents were AI, and  their parents,grand parents great grand parents and great great grand  parents were all AI how does that make me a non-analo-indian? it seems ridiculous  that some people think there is a "limit" to being an anglo indian.  therefore,by the same token, the sikhs,bengalis,marwaris,parsis etc are not what  they claim to be...they marry into their own community all the time. i  rather think we should concentrate on real issues, not on trivial  nonsense.

 has anyone wondered why, in the indian constitution, is the person  qualified as an anglo indian if, through the male line, they are  descended from europeans? ok, an error was made 50 odd years ago, but  why has it not been rectified? where are our anglo indian MLAs,  especially the female MLAs? i would have thought that its damnside easier to prove maternity than  paternity. obviously they have been sidetracked by personal interests,  or couldnt give a toss. high time to redress this wrong and bring ALL  anglo indians into the community, not just those who have an european  surname.oh, by the way, for any doubters, the constitution defines "anglo indian"  as one who is descended from europeans in the MALE line. the last time i  looked portugal was still in europe, therefore goans ARE anglo  indians, no matter what anyone thinks. they shouldn't have called us  "anglo indians" in the constitution to begin with, rather gone back to  the term "Eurasian", which love, personally. my mother tells me that it was "forbidden" as it was  derogatory back in "the old days". go figure. the other point that should be changed in the constitution is the "permanent residence" bit. does a sikh,parsi or anyone else lose their ethnicity  if they live outside india? i think not. so why are we singled out for  this?

i> live in mexico, what the heck does that make me now?? damn identity  crisis time again.

> LETS GET BACK TO BASICS,FORGET THOSE WHO DO NOT WANT TO BE AI both the above points are discriminatory, and, they are blatantly  contradictory to the constitution itself, which call for equality.  where are our "leaders"? buried their heads in the sand (or the money  morelikely) for 50 years? so, i suggest all of us put a bit of pressure on our  MLAs to start earning their salt and work for US and what we see as  important. cheers,

>

> pat venner

>

>

> visit: www.anglosinjharkhand.com

> and www.anglosinjharkhand.freeservers.com

 

 

hello again..

well,well,well. the response has been, for the large part, positive. however, some of our readers, and even personal friends, seem to have misunderstood our purpose here. i have received all kinds of feedback, from dead silence when i ask "how did you like the page?" to "why are you people doing this?", "it is anti-indian" etc etc. i thought i would take the time to clarify things!

anglo-indians are INDIANS. the anglo part is only a description, like "sikh", "oriya" or whatever. most, but not ALL anglo-indians are christian. that is a bit of a surprise huh?!! i personally know quite a few anglos who are hindu,muslim etc.

the anglo-indian community didnt ask to be created. we are, as it were, a by product of the european presence in India. when trade dropped off and independence was achieved, we were left to flounder and find our own way. many anglo-indians decided to immigrate to other countries, feeling we would no longer have any opportunities. at that time they were not quite correct. we did have institutions,foundations and trusts left to us. these were then guaranteed under the Constituion. the vast majority of anglo-indians would not have left india, if they had had a choice. we left for a variety of reason, not the stupid "going back home" nonsense!(i live in mexico, and that aint "home"!)

with time our institutions,trusts etc fell into the hands of people who cheated us of our rights. the anglo-indians were no longer running their own institutions and trusts. we were being "eased out" as it were. as a result the education we were guaranteed was no longer available. without that education we were no longer competative in the job market. then the "economic migration" began. result, fewer and fewer anglo-indians left.

well, the schools have gone downhill. scandles,mismanagement, outright thievery. some of you will know of even cases of murder of masters and students. weapons have been found. education seems the last thing on the minds of the present boards of directors of these schools. anglo-indian children are being turned away for any and every reason simply because most of their families cannot pay up the huge "donations".

our cemeterites are being illegally sold, desecrated and turned into housing or other projects. how can anyone with a conscience do such a thing? these are sacred to us because they hold the remains of our beloved family members and other loved ones. cemeteries are guaranteed to us into perpetuity.."until nature takes its course". nature seems to be getting help in the form of greedy godless people!

our elderly now live on the kindness of donations from total strangers and non anglo-indians, as do many students. old peoples homes are being closed down left right and center. all this, mind you, while we are still, technically guaranteed the above! HOW does it make us anti-indian to fight for our rights?

so, a few of us decided to band together to see what could be done, fighting on all fronts. we are not doing this only for our community. we want the entire indian people to benefit from the excellent educational system India was rightly proud of. the educational system that made us be able to enter any foreign institute and stand out. we do not want our system to become a third rate one that we are ashamed of. and yes, we want the "hijacking" of our rights to STOP.

i ask every "indian" to not try to seperate "anglo-indians" from the mainstream. everyone can win if we can get things back on the right track. for yourselves, for your children and grand children. you are all aware that the education in the school that you went to was far superior to what your child has today.

with fond regards,

pat venner...and pls excuse spelling,grammar etc

visit: www.anglosinjharkhand.com

Dear friends, I think we can all agree that one man cannot achieve as much as a team of dedicated professionals and people with a passion who believe strongly in what they are trying to accomplish. I have already stated my concerns about any action group, and, having a 'Stated Agenda'. If we are to involve Ai's from different parts of the globe, the action group has to have an international flavour for 2 reasons:1) There is a depth of talent o/seas that can be tapped into 2)There are possibly more affluent Ai's o/seas that can for once put their money where their mouth is."If I have to be rude to be kind, so shall it be". I don't believe we can clone another Mahatma, so, Max cannot shoulder all the work himself. If he is not to burn out, he should be delegating some of the less important tasks.Also,as Max is pioneering a very important piece of political change in Ai history, we need his experience and acumen to last the distance. I hope I have made myself clear, without trying to upset anyone. AIPAC-Anglo indian International Public Affairs Committee can be the Governing Council with experts from various fields on the Committee/Board.I have suggested 2 experts each from the legal,education,engineering,religious and other field.Without such an expert committee , I cannot see how we can tackle the big picture.There should be no illusions about the challenges ahead, and anything that Max is trying to achieve has to be sustainable. Fund raising through the various Ai bodies o/seas to support the 'Stated Agenda' is feasible.I do not expect anyone in particular would want to bear the whole financial burden, and any worthwhile goal, needs the dollar resources. But every dollar raised would help, whether its through an Ai jig or a community picnic in the desert. Thanks guys for 'lending me your ears'. Keep me posted with your comments on this matter. Regards, Jeffrey Woods watqual@bigpond.com.au

Pat,

I applaud your response.  I cannot for one understand why we need a conference and I am sure most of us "know who we are" and "what we are" there is no doubt on that. I know all about those "club scenes" too.  Spent much of my leisure time in one of "those" and on reflection I now realize just what an insular practice it was and what a waste of a life when one only has one life.  I know that both sides of my family were considered as "good families" in society at the time due mainly to the fact that both my grandparents were fortunate enough to have had a very good education both being professional men, one a lawyer and the other an engineer - only achieved by self motivation and at a very great expense (emotionally mainly) as they were both orphans brought up in orphanages from a very early age (fatherless) so therefore they were both "hungry" men.  My mother being the only daughter was very restricted in her choice of marriage but that's another subject.

Since reaching maturity and on  endless reflection I have finally achieved the ability to removed myself  from that mindless prejudice of "good families" and non integration with "pagans" and idolitors" which leaves me remorseful and shameful ( I was a believer too in that practice until my eyes like a miracle opened).  And to think that for generations we were encouraged in these beliefs not only by our community but by our religious educators as well - those holier than thou men and women.  My husband was the first person to bring to my attention the fact that Jesus Christ was not a white man, a fact that has been categorically instilled into us even tto today.  If the truth be known, and  I don't think one needs to be an acadamic to work it out, Jesus was an Arab with sunburnt skin - probably very "sunburnt", blackeyed and blackhaired with probably a prominent nose and eyebrows.The organisation that employed my father for many years had eventually called in quits because of the disputes between India and East or West Pakistan at the time.  The situation was so serious that we had no contact at all with our relatives in either the East or West Pakistan,  all mail was directed through a contact in the UK.  My father was employed by India General Navigation and River Steam Navigation who shipped locally grown raw jute down the Ganges and Bharmaputra Rivers for onward shipment to Dundee in Scotland and with the demise of jute industry culminated with the added stress of the serious river traffic union problems, the industry just collapsed.  This was the deciding factor on my parents' decision to join me in the UK as they really had no means of financial support in India.  I had earlier traveled to the UK on an extended holiday where I met up with my husband and so made my home with him there.  As was the practice in those times it was a common occurrence for several members of the same family to work for one employer and this was also the case with my family.  My father's younger brother was employed by the same company first at Patna being stationed on the River and later at their East Bengal branch called Pakistan River Steam for many years.  My aunt was employed in their branch office also in Dacca and my father's youngest brother was stationed at one of the ghats in Calcutta.  Sadly though, with the collapse of the jute industry they too found themselves unemployed and eventually with the declaration of independence by East Pakistan to Bangladesh my uncle was hunted out by the then "freedom fighters" and under very  dangerous circumstances and the pain of death managed to make his way to Karachi. Just as a matter of interest, one of my cousins is now married to the present Governor of Sindh and her eldest sister is married to the former Premier of Perlis in Malaysia.  My parents for economic reasons had little or no choice but to join me in the UK.  There were no  avenues of employment for my father should he have remained in India as he was well over 40 at that time.  They did of course have to leave all their life savings (Provident Fund etc.,) in India as their official allowance was 3 Pounds Sterling per person.  My mother came into an inheritance of almost 2 lacks of Rupees which was confiscated by the Indian Government as well.  Ironically for the past couple of years or so I have this unquenchable yen to return to the land of my birth and who can say, and if the gods look favourable down on me, maybe once I get there I will never leave it ever again.

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: the anglo indians
my goodness... my hair is still standing molly.... my parents too were in pakistan at the time of partition. they had to get to india by train..it was horrendous. my mum, a child of 14, was made to help in the "washing up" of the lahore platform...washing up the blood from the massacres. there are family members we were never able to get in touch with again. my dad was in the RAF so he had safe passage back to india, but he hid a hindu lady and her baby under his bunk, behind his duffle bags, from the muslim mobs. yes luv, many of my relatives too have married muslims. molly, may i post your mail on my page? it would be such an honor for us... love and hugs, pat the maharani of kooch parvaar nahi

email from Larry Grant of Mumbai, to the webmaster &  who has so kindly offered to have this site hosted on a private domain as a Service to the community.

My dear Raymond - Our mutual good friend Patricia Venner sent me a page of your newsletter from the above site, which was very interesting.There was mention that the group wanted some support for its own domain name. As we have a small IT unit at Bombay, it's no problem registering the name exclusively to you and paying the fee. All that we would require is complete details from your end as to the name, address and email ID (not a web based ID such as Yahoo or Hotmail) which we should enter as registrant, technical contact, billing contact and admin contact. Best to give one name for all. In the first instance, the billing contact would be us, as we would be making payment directly to our registrars in the USA. As soon as this is done, we would transfer it to the name you nominate. All that will be required from your end is, that when they send you an email asking if you wish to have the transfer done, just send back the mail with YES ticked off.

Also, if there is any other help we can provide from here in term of design, incorporating free services which will attract more users etc. we would certainly try to help out. Once you have your own domain name, we would also take care of posting the details of the site on the major search engines. For which of course, it would be good to first build in a suitable list of "key words" while designing the site. Of course, there is no charge for whatever we can manage to do.These are just a few initial thoughts. Do let me know how we can help.

Sincerely, Larry Grant. _________________
www.larrygrant.com
Advertising & Training
Our other sites are www.zoroastrian.net (which has won the International Webmasters Award for the past two years) and www.the-happy-hours.com. The latter will give you a good idea of all the free services you can have on a web site. Nothing there is paid for. It is either on an exchange basis or taken from a free content provider.

Molly Hamilton  l_ehamilton@bigpond.com

De: l_ehamilton@bigpond.com
Para: patricia venner Enviado: 24 April 2002 19:03 Asunto: Re: slaughter for independenceOh Pat It brings tears to my eyes when I think of those days of nightmares during partition.  The fright just cannot be described and if fear had a smell we would have been overcome by it.  We too were a very divided family through it, never knowing from one day to the next if each and everyone of us was still alive and like you, I too have such vivid memories of the terrible things I witnessed at such a young age.  I was born in 1942 when the Japs were bombing the shit out of Calcutta so I was quite young during the fight for independence.  We lived in a predominantly muslim area - as you know the muslims lived in those hugh busties usually surrounding a mosque and suddenly the call would go out from the minaret "Allah Hoo Akbar" and each mosque would in turn take up the call - I still get goose flesh when I think about it, it's all so vivid - then the rampage would start.  We lived on the 2nd floor of a tall building called Noor Building with all AI neighbours who were friendless for donkeys' ears and in some instances had intermarried too.  I remember crawling into my Mum and Dad's bed, snuggling into the pillow to try to block out the warning call.  Then the Hindus would appear and the slaughter would commence with neither side really being the victor.  The Sikhs then took it into their heads to join the fray and they would do the parade in full regalia - swords and all God what a frightening sight, I can still see it.  I stood on our balcony one morning and watched a man being hacked to death in front of my very eyes - a sight I will carry till my dying day Pat.  The street parallel to us (behind) had several buildings inbetween divided by those high brick walls covered with bits of glass and barbwire, in one of those buildings lived a very young Bengali couple, husband, wife and baby of a few months, he (Rupie) must have been about 20 at the time, during peace time he used to visit us regularly in the evenings to sit with my Dad in his workshop. Dad used to make radios as  hobby - Dad was an Electrical Engineer by trade - they would spend hours together then the fighting broke out - now we were told in no uncertain terms that we were not to interfere and we would be safe, we had to paint a white cross on our front doors to say we were Christians.  Rupie appeared one night and on his knees begged my dad for his help, he could not get out of the vicinity as he was a Hindu and we were surrounded by muslims - he would be slaughtered.  There was great secrecy and a plan was hatched.  One night very late after the servants had all gone home, my Dad with a couple of his brothers proceeded down the back stairs carrying stools and chairs, they balanced them one on top of the other to get over the walls dividing the houses to eventually get to Rupie's place and then they returned back the same way accompanied by Rupie and his young family, somewhere during the early hours of the morning they disappeared - they were taken to safety but because "little children should be seen and not heard" no questions were ever asked.  I hope to God those young people survived.  I understand your experiences - part of my family were in Lahore at the time including Louis and his family - someone should be writing a book on these experiences eh?   We used to hear how entire train loads of either side were pulled out of the bogies and slaughtered and freight wagons or crates just filled with heads and returned to wherever they came from.  This practice was still going on in the 60's when all of a sudden everything was in a chaos once again and the dreadful religious situation flaired up again.  As  young woman I remember going up to our roof and watching Calcutta just burning, I was so much older then but the fright was even worse, I wouldn't sleep at night I was so scared.  It was not much longer after that I went to the UK where people just don't what goes on on the other side of the world.   I think I'll start saving these somewhere, should be interesting reading for the next generation of AI inheritance.  What do you say?  More later ok  Oh by the way you may post what you like honey - the honour is all mine.Mol

dear larry,

I don't know how we can thank you enough for your help. in a world full of suspicion and outright distrust it isn't common to come upon a person like you. thanks also for the patience with us "non computer eggheads". i hope , in time to come, we will do you proud for having helped us.

god bless,

pat venner

the maharani of kooch parvaar nahi (my ayah`s name for me)

Pat "On being an Anglo-Indian"

what is wrong or rude about being called an Eurasian?

from all i have learned, it would be the correct term for a person of mixed European and Asian blood. most "Anglo Indians" have more than one source of european and even asian blood. the anglos, i presume, would be just that gang from blity, which leaves out the Irish, welsh, Scots, Dutch, Germans, French etc etc. the Indian part therefore exempts sri lanka, Burma, Nepal etc etc..

OH GOD, I AM GOING THROUGH AN IDENTITY CRISIS. JUST FOUND THERE IS  besides of the tong from china (apparently there is a Chinese great  grandmother hidden in the closet) and who knows how many pathans  etc.  hey, if  it was good enough for queen Victoria, why not for my family? my  mother  and grand aunts should read this, i shall be written out of the will for good  and all!

don't worry ray, i may not post this on my page, but then again i  may, you  have the right to edit it out.

what the heck, if you cant laugh at yourself others have the power  to hurt  you. just reading Hugh Watkins' posting on in the india list. hope to  god  his  bandmaster wasn't one of my ancestors, German musicians in Calcutta  in the  1780s. see, Germans and chinese and irish is all i get. there is  anglo,  but,  lets frighten the Anglo-Indian gang, especially HRH PHd in anglo  indian studies (fake) , and ask the eternal question "were they  really Anglo?" and then "Anglo what?" "Saxon?" probably Visigoths.

well, i do ramble on, hugs, take care...

pat

what a wonderful lot our ancestors were! to find any truth we have to dig way, way back. actually, the girls of mixed parentage were fine, many married british officers,traders etc. some were sent back to england and were educated and married into a good society match. it was the males, whom by the early 1800, had all kinds of restrictions put on what they could or could not do, including what jobs etc. i have always known i have indian blood, a look in the mirror told me that. plus, my parents never called themselves anything but anglo indian...but, my surprise came a few years ago, when i developed an eye problem, the doctor asked if i had asian blood as it was a very particularly asian disease. this from a mexican doc who didnt know india from iran! a few years later, i noticed that my little twin nieces have funny blue marks on them, rather like a bruise, and i knew i had one, so i asked my brother, and he says the doctor had told him not to worry, it was comm with people from the indian subcontinent. we can run, but we cant hide luv. hugs,

pat

From Pat to Blair williams (Calcutta Tiljallah Relief )

dear blair,

for many of us it is impossible to send funds to india...for example, from mexico i cannot send money to any fund in india. no bank will do it! now, how about setting up a way where i and a thousand others could send money via a credit card? i am sure many people would do that, so much less stressful. i dont have to go to the bank, i dont have to go to the post office etc etc...all i do is call an 800 number or over the internet, and  wham, money sent. i am sure you would get a lot more money coming in that way. and i, for one, would send greenpeace and the WWF and a couple of others to heck and send my money to the AI fund! think it over, and see what you can come up with. personally it would make me happy, . i send the red cross money, for indian causes, but it is not for the AIs. i would rather the money went to my community. i have indian friends who have studied in AI schools who would love to support the cause, or i can strong arm them into doing so!

fond rgds,

pat venner

----- Original Message -----

From: "Margaret Deefholts" pennme@margaretdeefholts.com

To: "patricia venner" patinmex@att.net.mx

Sent: 15 April 2002 23:05

Subject: Re: anglo indians

 Hello Patricia:

Thank you for your kind comments. I have no objection at all to Ray Barnes  using the article on his website. The easiest way to do it is for him > to hyperlink the title "Who Are the Anglo-Indians" to the page on my  web site at  http://www.margaretdeefholts.com/angloindian.html That way, the background and illustrations will remain intact.  I've actually been trying to e-mail Ray to let him know that I've  built in a link to www.anglosinjharkhand.freeservers.com in my  Anglo-Indian section,  but have been unable to make contact with him via e-mail - it just  bounces back as undelivered.  I also wanted to let him know that we in British Columbia, Canada are  trying to organize an Alaska cruise by way of a mini-reunion in  September 2003. The details are on the web at  http://www.geocities.com/deefholt/alaskacruise.html A bit of extra  publicity on his site would certainly be welcome. It would be nice  too, if  he could build in a reciprocal link to www.margaretdeefholts.com on  his site - but as mentioned above, I haven't been successful in trying  to get in touch via e-mail.  Let's keep the flame of memories alive - even though it is a  flickering ember of an era that has all but disappeared.  Thanks again for your e-mail, and do stay in touch.

 Cheers,

 Margaret

 At 04:14 PM 4/15/2002 -0600, you wrote:

dear margaret,

your article ws sent to me by an internet friend/3rd cousin. congratulations, i have never seen our history put more accurately. i

have printed it to send to my mum, who is of the same opinion as you, and myself. i try to help "the cause". gettting people in touch with the right source etc etc. being a housewife, i have all the time in the world, but not the money. so, i use the net and "connections"...to help the anglo indians still in india. my friends and kind , in india and in other parts of the world, need the support. i wanted to ask you a favour, may i have your article put on the  "anglosinjharkhand" page? this page, run by friends of mine, serves anglos all over the world, not just jharkhand. maybe you could visit it first, before you say yes or no to me, it is www.anglosinjharkhand.freeservers.com .The owner, raymond barnes, and i went to school together, he now has his own school, barnes school in ranchi. maybe we are fighting a lost cause, but at least no one can say we didnt put up a fight to survive! a very sad  day for india indeed, should the anglo indian community disappear.

best wishes and fond regards,

patricia venner

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LETTERS TO MAX

    From: The Telegraph, Kolkata 04 -Mar - 2002

By Madhushree Bhowmik Spl. Reporter

 

ANGLO INDIAN TRUSTS

 The hijacking of Anglo-Indian trusts 

by Max Galstaun

 

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